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Post by RobertGraves on Jul 7, 2005 6:29:54 GMT -5
Terrorism (apparently) in London: www.smh.com.au/Some are suggesting that the focus in Edinburg on security for the G8 may have led to London being a 'softer' target than usual.
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Post by Tenarke on Jul 7, 2005 19:01:35 GMT -5
Yes Robert, the London bombings are very much in the news here today.
Whether or not the security arrangements for the G8 conference in Edinburgh “softened” London security or not is probably moot. My last visit there was in 1979 and I found security measures very tight then due to threats of IRA bombings.
Sad to say the London Metropolitan Police are old hands at this having been at it off and on for that long a time. As with assassinations, if persons are determined enough and don’t mind the personal consequences, there is very little to be done to prevent the final act.
Very good covert intelligence work, unfettered by political agendas can be more effective by identifying the sources and causes of terrorism and perhaps nipping them in the bud. Unfortunately that does not produce the same spectacular press and PR as “Shock and Awe” in Iraq, as irrelevant as that may have been.
My concern now is that this act may revive the terrorist “bogeymen” that are so instrumental to keeping Bush and crew in office.
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Post by RobertGraves on Jul 7, 2005 19:48:07 GMT -5
I also can see what use will be made of this bombing in London. It is a pity as it seemed that the 'coalition of the willing' was starting to soften it's image in a number of areas (asylum seekers for one).
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Post by Wyndham on Jul 7, 2005 20:15:42 GMT -5
We'll see what happens with this. As Tenarke says, the Brits (alas for them!) are old hands at this. I believe the current number is 5,000+ killed in N. Ireland since 1969, and I'd guess the aggregate casualty toll was probably more in the IRA England pub bombings in the 80s. Still a spectacular, if pointless attack.
What I'm interested to find out is the ID of the perpetrators dollars to donuts that they are British subjects -- relatively well heeled, assimilated members of the large Muslim community resident in London. Always interests me, though I can't sufficiently account for it, but those Muslims who hate the West most seem to be those who know it best. They are essentially attacking their own community. As I recall, many of the 9/11 bombers were essentially in this category too. We keep thinking 'Afghan Talaban jihadist'. Reality is always some clean-cut guy who's first name happens to be Achmed.
Wondering how long it will take, how many more episodes, before a backlash will develop regarding immigration policies etc?
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Post by Aravis on Jul 8, 2005 15:04:36 GMT -5
al Qaeda has already claimed responsibility for it.
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Post by Tenarke on Jul 8, 2005 16:35:19 GMT -5
As I understand it the group claiming credit via the internet calls itself “The Al Qaeda Jihad in Europe”.
Some BBC and ITV rebroadcasts here have UK security types speculating on the connection with Al Qaeda and/or Bin Laden and whether this is a separate “copy cat” organization or whether the original Al Qaeda has evolved into a larger even less centralized organizion.
I think that Wyndham refers to the fact that the twenty directly involved with the 9/11 hijackings were relatively long term resident aliens, or “sleeper agents”. It may well turn out that the London bombings were done by “sleepers”, members of London’s large Mid Eastern community.
I recall when I returned to London for my 1979 visit, being struck by the fact that London Transit, including the tubes, were no longer run by Cockneys, but by apparent Mid Easterners. Londoners referred to them, accurately or not, as Pakistanis.
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Post by Wyndham on Jul 9, 2005 7:55:49 GMT -5
I don't know if its intentional, but three of the London bombs -- Euston Station, Russell Square tube, and the Tavistock Square bus bombing took place within spitting distance (and the bus bomb right in front of) the University of London buildings dedicated to understanding the outer, non-Western world. There's a cluster of galleries, illustating eastern cultures, the school of tropical medicine, the offices of most of the friendly societies, and the School of Oriental and African Studies (my alma mater!) is right on Tavistock Square. Its one of the few places in the Western World where people make an honest attempt to understand the Muslim perspective. The other two bombs went off in tube stations inside neighbourhoods -- Bayswater and Tower Hamlets -- heavily populated by Muslims. If you walk up Edgeware road from Oxford Circus toward Bayswater station, I swear, you'd think you were in Teheran.
In short: a foolish selection of targets. To my mind the only thing these attackers are apt to accomplish is what the 1968 race rioters did -- mess up their own neighbourhoods, while increasing fear and reducing tolerance generally.
El Qeada, surely, but what's that?
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Post by Aravis on Jul 9, 2005 13:38:20 GMT -5
I like my pet theory better, that it was actually a CIA operation to shore up support for the war in Iraq. The location of the attacks would seem to bear that out.
No I'm not serious. Not quite.
Wyn, what is the IRA? What are any of these terrorist groups? People with (an extreme) common cause working together towards it. I'd call it better living through violence, but there's not much life at the end of it, is there?
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Post by RobertGraves on Jul 10, 2005 16:56:49 GMT -5
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Post by RobertGraves on Aug 4, 2005 5:24:52 GMT -5
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Post by RobertGraves on Oct 1, 2005 16:13:15 GMT -5
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Post by Wyndham on Oct 3, 2005 10:13:28 GMT -5
Read this with some interest Robert. Don't know when raising the flag 'differently abled' just becomes old think bigotry. I am pretty sure though that the way not to deal with such issues is simply to say 'I don't deign to respond'. If there's an argument to be made against a position, then why not make it if even in bullet fashion? Struck me that most of the women asked to comment could very simply have pointed to themselves as self-evident contradiction to the position put forward. Women don't have the parts to be good scientists -- look at me: I'm a fourth degree black belt in Math!
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Post by RobertGraves on Oct 3, 2005 16:12:45 GMT -5
There seems to be a burgeoning academic market in racist and sexist 'research' that tells us conservative models of society were right ie blacks are less intelligent and women not that bright, mathematically speaking. An aside: the other research that drives me nuts is the kind that finds tv and computer games are soooo bad for kids that it can cause them to reach puberty prematurely (no kidding) or become homicidal maniacs: www.smh.com.au/news/national/tv-will-stunt-young-brains-study/2005/10/03/1128191658833.htmlI'd recommend Steven Johnson's book, 'Everything bad is good for you' as a remedy.
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Post by Tenarke on Oct 6, 2005 13:26:59 GMT -5
Sounds a bit like Darwin in reverse. Let’s see; premature puberty, diminished impulse control, myopia and obesity. We should therefore be evolving into a fast breeding race of hot tempered, horny, and near sighted couch potatoes.
De-evolution through electronics!
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Post by Wyndham on Oct 1, 2007 15:06:56 GMT -5
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